Hi! I created this face in the detail editor in the following manner. I have found that this method works best for me. I _had_ a better face with a mohawk and a complete head and eyes, but a hard disk crash gave it to the virtual void... Anyway, I manipulate faces like this (to get expressions) by using "drag-points magnetic" settings. Then I resave it under a different name and morph the various expressions to gether in the animation editor. First off, I add an axis in the top view and add a bunch of points in a pattern that would represent the outline of the face, at the level of the eyes. Then I copy the object and paste it about 10 pts lower than the first object. I then manipulate the points of the lower object so that it is representative of the next layer. Then I COPY the second layer. I then JOIN the first two and then add faces (from the fron view) to connect the first two layers. THEN I paste the copy of the second one down, move it down (z) and manipulate it till it represents the next layer. I then copy it and JOIN the top object and the new (third) layer. Then add faces and continue as before. Basically, after you get th first layer happening its a kind of two-step operation: Copy the lower object and then join it to the upper object. Add faces to the object and then paste and move the new object down. Repeat as necessary. When you get to the chin, go back and, using hide points if necessary, work your way up. It's best to add the eyes as a group of objects so you can manipulate them separately. Note that you can morph a group if the number and types of objects in the groups are the same. What this means is that, in addition to morphing the copies of the faces expressions that you make, you can do the same with the "groups" of eyes, grouped to the face (the face should be the parent object; that way the axis will always stay in the same position) Best of luck and enjoy it! Scott M. Stumpworld Video and Animation 76505,2615